History
3/13 Update - DJB
All,
Good first meeting everybody, thank you to all who showed up and especially thank you to Zach for setting it up and taking the reins on a lot of the important admin and executive responsibilities. We have a lot to get done, but it is apparent that we have a lot of people interested in making this thing work, and it helps that we are all located across the country with a variety of skill sets. Basically, I would not bet against the Snake Eyes being a top tier MiLP organization by the time year 2 rolls around.
3/20 Update - Tim Parks
I had a call this afternoon with:
Brian Levine (interim MLP CEO)
Jake Hobaugh (MiLP CEO)
Matt Alvarez (Las Vegas Knight Owls owner)
some MLP lawyer guy
Also invited were the owners of the Florida Smash (Graham D'Amico) and Texas Ranchers (Tim Klitch) MLP teams, but those 2 couldn't make it.
As expected things are completely in flux, but I'm actually more optimistic about this than I was a month ago. There are all sorts of reasons for the uncertainty, but one big one is that it looks like the merger between PPA and MLP is finally going through which changes the outlook/arrangement for MiLP. This resolves a big question which is under what entity would MiLP reside. If these were all going to be separate entities (MLP, MiLP, DUPR, merchandise, etc) we would run into two problems: 1) trademark/IP infringement issues - for instance, there is a patent pending on the Dreambreaker 2) general lack of support from MLP/PPA if MiLP was its own island
So this is generally a good thing - if only say 4-6 MLP owners and a handful of staff had equity in MiLP, it would be a constant struggle to get resources and promotion directed towards MiLP. This would have especially been true next year when there are 12 teams in Challenger for the entire season and there are already lots of concerns that MiLP could eat away at the Challenger MLP league.
The other reason it's good that things are so disorganized and up for grabs is that we can have a real voice in influencing the future of the league. At several points throughout the call, Brian asked my opinion and when I gave it he basically said "ok let's go with that."
The key points from the call:
- DUPR going to close in the merger, Minor League and Major League going to be integrated
- the "showcase" event this past weekend went great - feedback from amateurs is that they are in love with the format and it's really enforcing the MLP format at the grassroots level
- still some things to sort out with what ranges are acceptable, minimum number of games, etc.
- the end of April event is still a go, but it's going to be more of a showdown then the first official/marquee event mainly because they haven't sold all the teams yet
- a big reason they are waiting to sell the teams is because Brian really wants to work on some sort of affiliate model between minor and major league teams. Obviously for our purposes, we've already done this. But he basically wants to at least give the option to every MLP ownership group to have some skin in the MiLP game. This is going to take time to make the pitch and explain to all these guys what the concept is.
- additionally, Brian asked me the q of how many minor league teams we should sell
- I said to sell 12 this year as we're still figuring stuff out, keep the mistakes small and localized and nimble before expanding to a big lumbering ship. This also gives us the chance to sell teams at a higher valuation 2024-2026. But open to feedback on this.
- the first official marquee MiLP event is now going to likely be in conjunction with MLP Atlanta (Sept21-Sept24). This is going to be a busy weekend for me with the Hard 8s also in action, so it would be great to get as many of you to Hotlanta for the weekend as possible.
- I am keen to use MiLP to tinker and experiment with the MLP format in a lower stakes setting. Two examples that I think we can probably get for this first tournament at the end of April is a shot-clock (can explain in more detail on the call tomorrow) and also refs using an ipad to keep score rather than pen and paper on a clipboard. The latter is crucial for gambling. I'm sure there will be tons of predictable and unforeseen issues with both of these but as I told the guys on the call - if we don't ever test some stuff out that we have to say "that was dumb" and roll back, then I'd argue we're not pushing the envelope far enough
And perhaps the most important/encouraging at all: I really am pushing hard for us to get equity with this deal, beyond just owning a team that can appreciate in value and we can use to generate cash flow in all the ways previously discussed (feeder tournaments, merchandise, sponsorships, etc). I made the case that we will be generating tons of value for DUPR mainly, but also the entire MLP ecosystem and should participate in the upside here.
And after hanging up, I'd put the odds of us getting at least SOME equity in MLP at 75%. Now I don't think we'll get a full 750k worth of equity because the current board/set of MLP owners who pass on buying a Minor League Team won't approve that much dilution. But I feel good about us getting something here, maybe 200-400k worth.
The sad part is that these MLP shares will be awarded to us at the valuation the last two teams sold for (Orlando Slice, St Louis Shock) and Dude Perfect just bought a chunk of Clean Cause at: $300mm. Not exactly a bargain, but as I've argued before - there could be 3 separate billion dollar businesses embedded within this MLP umbrella (DUPR, MLP, college pickleball) so there is still plenty of room to run here. And again, this in addition to whatever cash flow we can generate from the team on a running basis.
I still think we'll be able to fully recoup the 750k investment/capital calls within a few years if we do this thing right, so any MLP equity on top is a bonus. But I'm not being subtle in basically telling them that I don't think we can commit to buying a team without some slice of equity and they seem very amenable. Will ultimately require Steve's approval which I feel good about given my relationship and previous conversations with him.
There are still a bunch of great questions that you (mainly DJ and the NML guys) brought up that weren't answered, including:
1) when does your DUPR rating lock for a tournament? I.e. if you play a match the morning of a tournament, does that impact your DUPR standing?
2) when do the lineups have to be set?
3) why are MLP matches not included in DUPR calculations? (this is the most insane thing ever)
4) are there any rules around stealing players from other teams?
5) minimum number of matches to be DUPR rated?
6) why does the website suck so much? Can we help?
7) can we get a schedule please of time and place for MiLP events?
8) what are the rules around locking players up for the year?
That's good for now, catch you guys tomorrow.
- Tim
3/21 Incentives to Invest - NML Pickle
Some ideas for selling Major League Teams on buying Minor League Pickleball:
- The biggest thing has to be that amateur pickleball is still the biggest ticket for revenue in pickleball and MiLP offers the easiest path to accessing those amateurs
- DUPR –With DUPR being part of MLP this is the obvious. DUPR becoming “The” rating system pickleball, something akin a USGA handicap, is probably the easiest path to a billion dollar business for MLP and MiLP is the ticket that can drive that.
- I attend my first team event this weekend (basically MLP rip off with 3 guys, 1 girl). I was talking to a number of players about DUPR and MiLP. The first question I got from a number of people, was why would I get a DUPR? They don’t initially see a value or purpose to it. When I told them, that they would need one to play MiLP, and that that the MiLP divisions are based on DUPR, they immediately said they needed to get a DUPR, because they want to play these MiLP events.
- As an aside I am now quite convinced that MiLP, could become the most popular amateur format. Players, myself included, love the format, and want more.
- I attend my first team event this weekend (basically MLP rip off with 3 guys, 1 girl). I was talking to a number of players about DUPR and MiLP. The first question I got from a number of people, was why would I get a DUPR? They don’t initially see a value or purpose to it. When I told them, that they would need one to play MiLP, and that that the MiLP divisions are based on DUPR, they immediately said they needed to get a DUPR, because they want to play these MiLP events.
- Major League Pickleball Ball – If you make minor league pickleball the premier amateur tournaments, and they play with the MLP Ball, that is going to be the ball that amateur players generally want to play with. Amateur players who play tournaments, want to practice with the ball, that they will be playing with in their next tournament with. If Minor League Pickleball, can dominate the amateur landscape, then you can dominate the ball sales.
- DUPR –With DUPR being part of MLP this is the obvious. DUPR becoming “The” rating system pickleball, something akin a USGA handicap, is probably the easiest path to a billion dollar business for MLP and MiLP is the ticket that can drive that.
- It could help create fan bases. With no true geographic connections etc. at this point in time, it is difficult to build a fan base for individual teams and thus sell merchandise, increase viewership etc. If you have an amateur minor league pickleball system, where those amateur teams are affiliated with MLP teams, you can naturally create a fan base.
- A lot of amateur will want to play for or be involved with a minor league, which is affiliated with a MLP team (It makes them feel important). So you it will help with the sign ups, etc for tournaments, ladders, and whatever else the minor league team
- MLP teams could also bring in their pro players to run some camps for their minor league team, attend some events etc.
- These amateur players will feel apart of the organization, and as a result develop a connection to the team. These amateur players will then buy merchandise and playing gear from the team, they will also definitely watch the team, and some will even travel to support the team.
- I think the creation of fan bases, could actually be one of the biggest things, and is fairly unique to pickleball. Fans aren’t going to go play basketball and suddenly feel like they are part of the ‘team’ but pickleball, because it is such a great amateur sport lends itself to that.
- I actually saw a small example of it this weekend, where some ‘fans’ flew almost four hours across the country to watch, players one of the teams this weekend, because two of the players are teaching pros, and run a bunch of leagues and ladders under the “Churco Team” brand. So these 3.5’s flew across the country to watch their Churco ‘Pros’ play, because they are part of the ‘Chruco Team’. If people are willing to do that to cheer on fake pros, can’t imagine what they would be willing to do if they thought they were part of Ben Johns, Riley Newman or Anna Leigh Waters team
Chris, probably summarized it best in that we still don’t know where professional pickleball is going, but MiLP offers a great hedge against that by giving MLP teams a chance to realize control amateur pickleball and get a good ROI off of it.
3/27 Update - DJB
This past weekend was rough, no way around it. The Hard Eights started off with a huge dub over the NJ 5s and then a million unforced errors against an inferior opponent in Las Vegas was tough to watch and ultimately led to their demise. They played their hearts out, but it just wasn't meant to be in Daytona. Big shoutout to Rick, Paco, Tim, and Greg for another fun, and successful MLP event. They may not have won, but the "Roll the Dice" chant along with the pink fuzzy dice and the freshest unis definitely made it seem like the Hard Eights were the most fun team to root for by far. Only thing missing is a championship. Onto San Clemente.
For its MiLP affiliate, South Bend Snake Eyes, we are going to have a meeting tomorrow (3/28) at Noon EST. (Link is at the bottom of the email) We are going to try and keep it high and tight, as we know everybody's time is precious. A few of the things we want to discuss in no particular order:
Meeting Agenda & Updates
1. FAQs - We need to lock down some specifics about MiLP events and specifically the first unofficial event at the end of April outside of St. Louis. Some of the questions we have been getting asked by potential players and sponsors are:
-Is the tournament still on and what are the official dates? https://officialminorleaguepb.com/events/month/2023-04/ (The official MiLP calendar still has nothing on its calendar, yet they added a Dallas Showdown for April 15th weekend)
-Tournament Fees and Prize money? (Specifics really help sell this to players have to consider other tournaments and events that weekend)
-Internal Operating Budget allocation toward players? This is more of an internal decision on how we want to spend our money and what (if any) do we want to allocate towards player travel, lodging, fees, apparel, etc... This is perhaps the most important thing our potential players are looking for and we do need to come up with an answer. I don't expect us to have this tomorrow, but it is something to think about.
2. Player Recruiting Update
Niall and Bob have been doing a lot of good work these past 2 weeks scheduling meetings and trying to find people especially for our upper divisions. It's tough to nail down players without the specifics to some of the above questions, but we have had a couple positive meetings and those meetings are leading us to some other potential players. This weekend, I will be meeting up with Ben Kasbeer (5.2 DUPR) at a tournament in Bloomington, IL where he has found a few other players we will talk to. Hopefully, by this time next weekend, we will have some players committed to the SBSE.
We also want to hear about other potential players anybody else knows, and what our strategy is going to be to try and entice players and build a roster from the top down.
3. Snake Eyes Logo & Jersey
Garrett Campbell has been working with a graphic designer on nailing down a logo and we are nearly there. The first few concept logos looked fresh (can see them in SBSE Spreadsheet Hub) She is working on a final design and we should have something to show off by this week. From there, we have a uniform company on standby to start putting together jerseys and/or apparel pending financial allocation decisions.
4. Marketing
Max Guilbert has solidified the domain and has been coming up with a plan to get a basic website up and running for a very reasonable monthly fee. He has also got us a way to have a few email addresses that we are going to assign to look more professional as we reach out to players and sponsors. In regards to the website, Max and I, and whoever else wants to help will start putting it together to make sure that we have an online presence. We also want to follow this up with an instagram/twitter/facebook account and a plan to maintain and grow in the early stages.
5. Feeder Tournaments
Zach and Bob have been making moves and have been inquiring about the process of setting up feeder tournaments and what all goes into that. Hearing an update from one of them would help us understand more about this process and next steps.
6. Business Decisions
I know there have been a few things that Zach has sent out regarding money and investments, and truth be told, a lot of it went over my head. I don't know what answers he needs from us on the business side to help make his life smoother, and if there is anything needed on the cap table side, and financial side, then we need to make sure we are on top of these as they are extremely important in keeping us afloat.
7. Snake Eyes Portal / Hub
I am in the process of converting the google spreadsheet and docs into a hub where we can go for all the documents, emails, updates, and questions for the team. There have been a lot of good emails and questions, and ideas back and forth in a lot of different mediums, and I want to make sure we have a place to update the group on how a player meeting went and what the next steps are. Or a potential sponsor CRM. Legal documents, strategy, stats, updates, merchandise, tasks, cap table, etc.. I want to make sure we have a place to go to for everything going on and all the updates. This is going to be very crude at the beginning in the form of google sheet tabs and google docs, and then go from there and improve the medium moving down the line.
8. Other & Next Steps
Whatever else people have to add, contribute, ask, concerns, etc.. We want this to be free-flowing and not all hoighty toighty buttoned up. We want to hear from you on what we can do to move this thing forward as we start our 3rd official week. We also can discuss whether weekly meetings make sense or if they are overkill or not enough communication. Maybe it's something where we have breakout groups to meet privately to accomplish smaller tasks, and then we all get together less frequently for updates. Just a thought.
4/7 Update - DJB & Rick
Rick Chan <rick@hard8s.com>